Why should I pursue a CPA

CPA optimization: how much does a customer cost?

B: Today we are talking about CPA, or cost per acquisition. What is actually behind this value? Where do we see problems? And then of course, you know how you can optimize your CPA in a smart way. But before we start, as always, some information in advance, this time about our SEO workshop. We offer an SEO workshop where you really learn the complete SEO craft over two days in a row - for really meaningful SEO measures. So that, the most important things from analytics, to keyword research, how do I develop holistic content, all the way back to the link building. And it's going to be a nice little round. We always give input. You can then directly apply what you have learned. That is also very important to us. And then we will still discuss. Yes, and in the evening we actually end the day in the brewery as comfortably as possible. # 00: 01: 48-3 #

Q: That is actually the most important. # 00: 01: 49-7 #

B: That's great, that's the most important thing. # 00: 01: 52-0 #

Q: Yes, the (unv.). # 00: 01: 54-1 #

B: We already have quite a few, we also have some pretty cool participants. So it's going to be a nice lap. Yes, and you can find the information on our website. There we have. wrote everything down again. It takes place in the Rhineland and in Cologne. Yes, and there is actually all further information. So, enough of the advertising beforehand. Let's talk a little bit about CPA optimization. # 00: 02: 27-2 #

Q: Sure. # 00: 02: 27-9 #

B: Fabian, explain what is that actually? # 00: 02: 30-2 #

Q: Cost per Acquisition, abbreviation, i.e. the costs that a conversion causes. This is a value that is often used in advertising systems to find out, so to speak, how much advertising budget I need to carry out a desired action, i.e. a conversion or a purchase in the online shop. What does a customer cost me? What does a purchase cost me? But you can also break it down, depending on how you measure your conversion, to a newsletter registration or a lead via a form. So actually everything that triggers a conversion that brings a turnover can ultimately be put in relation to the costs afterwards. And this relation is then, so to speak, the CPA, i.e. the cost per acquisition. There is also the CPC, the cost per click, yes. This is ultimately something similar, where you also add costs to an action, i.e. a click with one. And if I shop for one, yes, if I buy ten clicks, the click costs me ten, costs me one euro, then I have spent ten euros. One of these ten people will buy from me. Then I have a CPA of ten euros, yes, because one of the ten bought it. I had a cost of ten euros. As I said, this is mainly used in advertising systems where you spend budget to generate a conversion, for example with Google Ads or Facebook. If you do SEO now, as we mainly do, the question is of course: is there also an SEO CPA? And of course it depends on what costs were incurred in advance in order to achieve good Google positions. It's a bit more difficult to calculate, but in the end we've talked about it a lot, you can't just say: Google is organic, SEO is free. But there, too, there are costs for content, for manpower and you should always put these in relation to the conversions. # 00: 04: 33-6 #

B: We did our own episode, too, right? A ROI consequence, return on investment from SEO. # 00: 04: 38-5 #

Q: Yes, exactly. # 00: 04: 39-5 #

B: or return on investment for SEO, no. So if you are particularly interested in SEO again, this episode is advisable. Yes, and I also think otherwise, no. So I think you always have these two topics. On the one hand: how do we set up such a complete system in the first place, yes? And then the second is: how do we optimize it that way, right? And today it's, so to speak, about the, again the second level, that, that, the optimization, so to speak. And yes, and in that sense let's delve a little deeper into the pitfalls of advertising systems. # 00: 05: 18-0 #

Q: Exactly. So the main place where people talk about CPAs is in the advertising systems. And that is where, in my opinion, most of the pitfalls lurk when you work with it. And that lies in the automation. Yes, such a CPA can be automated very well. So I tell the advertising system, I don't want to spend more than ten euros on my lead, for example, and then the advertising system says: yes, bomb, I'll get you this, yes. So, and then the advertising system tries to align itself so that you get your lead for these ten euros. If that's too cheap, then you don't get any, but at first glance it is very smart and very simple and very convenient for the advertiser, if he, even afterwards in SEO reporting, no, when it comes to the Example to make that clear to the management somehow. Then you say yes, I won't pay more than ten euros. And I get it from there and, yes, and so on. # 00: 06: 16-3 #

B: Exactly. Make it cheaper. Yes No problem. # 00: 06: 18-6 #

Q: Yes. # 00: 06: 19-9 #

B: Click nine euros. # 00: 06: 20-9 #

Q: Nine euros, yes, like that. No, and you can, you can just keep playing the game, no. That is very, at first glance it is very transparent. And that's an advantage that no other advertising system offers, no. So you can't place a print ad and tell the newspaper: I would like to have 100 inquiries afterwards for 20 euros each. Yes, that's not working. This cannot be mapped over the channel. It works in online marketing. But it also has its pitfalls. Exactly, and that brings us to the first problem. Or did you want to say something about that? # 00: 06: 55-7 #

B: No, not at all, is # 00: 06: 56-9 #

Q: Yes. # 00: 06: 58-1 #

B: that's exactly the thing. # 00: 06: 59-2 #

Q: Well, because the important thing in online marketing is that you learn for yourself what exactly is going on, yes. And above all, if you don't just look after advertising systems, but also want to do SEO and content, you want a little more information than just: this lead has now cost me ten euros. Yes, that means, I think personally that you buy yourself a huge loss of information with this convenience. Yes. And then you often see, so there is a flow of information, that is one thing, that you no longer know exactly where my customers really come from now, no, a bit, because I no longer do my own thing and do my campaign optimize. The system does that for me. And the second thing I see very often is that cheap leads slip through your fingers as a result. Yes, you can ultimately optimize your CPA much, much better. You can get much cheaper conversions if you do it by hand, because there are often areas, often individual small areas in the niche that run very efficiently, where you can then maybe for the lead, I have the example ten Euro now called, maybe only one Euro, maybe even only 50 cents paid. Yes, but by setting the ten euros with the lawnmower and ironing everything else flat, the system says to itself: yes, okay, I could sell it to him for 50 cents, but I'll sell it to him for ten euros because that's what it is the value he entered. Yes, why should I give it to him for less? So it's one thing that you don't learn anything from it, I personally find it even worse than the price effect, because you lose the feeling for your campaign. This is the first. The second is that you often get the leads much cheaper in many places, you get a much cheaper CPA in certain areas if you would do it by hand. # 00: 08: 44-9 #

B: Exactly. And another thing you have already indicated, because if, for example, really good leads would come in for 11.50, then they are also beyond the horizon of experience. # 00: 08: 57-0 #

Q: Yes, or if you like, for 20 or 30 euros, no. So the system, of course, it gets me a lead for 50 cents and one for 20 euros. That's about ten euros on average. Of course that also happens, no. But it is already averaging, it is averaging somewhere. And something falls down above and below. It is often like that. And you actually have, you have no control at all or little control over what is actually triggered. No, and I think that's the problem. I don't want to demonize it, yes, it sometimes makes sense, that's definitely true, but the experience I've had with it is that you lose a lot in one cut and you learn very little. Exactly. # 00: 09: 44-8 #

B: Now you've already hinted it a bit, that's a bit of the second problem. That is, are the different values ​​of the conversions, no, or not? # 00: 09: 54-5 #

Q: Exactly. I think we already mentioned in our Adwords episode that you should always take the time to precisely define your conversions. What do I even want to measure as a desired action? What's my conversion? Is it the newsletter subscription? Is it the lead? Yes. Where is the (unv.)? That's one thing. The second is that there are also different values ​​within the conversions. Yes, it is very plastic in an online shop. There are large shopping baskets and small shopping baskets. But there are also products on which I have a high margin or on which I have a low margin. Yes, just a big shopping cart doesn't mean that I earn a lot from it. The same applies of course in the B2B area. A lead who buys a screw from me is not as valuable as someone who buys an entire system from me for a few million, yes. Here, too, you have to differentiate, which leads do I want to have? What are they worth? And actually that's the only way I can optimize my CPA. Yes, I can also pay a higher CPA for someone who buys an entire system, but if I have a screw, I cannot spend 50 euros per lead. Yes. # 00: 11: 04-4 #

B: While the advertising system obviously doesn't understand the margins. # 00: 11: 07-7 #

Q: And the same system doesn't understand that at all, no. # 00: 11: 09-1 #

B: Are there only one, two, three, four, five conversions, no. # 00: 11: 12-8 #

Q: Exactly. But you would have to work with e-commerce tracking and play back the values, but that is often not possible in B2B because you don't even know what will become of the phone call or the contact afterwards. I have to say that when I look at Google, for example, it is now also being picked up a bit in the partner system from the workshops that you should calculate the ROI (unv.) Look at the conversions should. Well, they are already aware of the problem, but the system is often not set up that granularly, no. Instead, a conversion is simply counted and then optimized on that basis. But whether it is really worth it because I pay for it, I as a marketer often only know that after consulting with the sales department, with the sales department, with the controlling department, with the product development department. And I have to, I have to consult with them. But when I've set up an automated system like this, it often doesn't work. Yes. # 00: 12: 10-9 #

B: Point three. So now we have this, the first was again very briefly the automated systems. I just set it to a certain value. The second thing is that I don't even know what the value of the conversion is, the conversion backwards for me? So as far as my income is concerned (unv.). # 00: 12: 30-9 #

Q: I may already know, but the system doesn't know. # 00: 12: 32-9 #

B: Yes, exactly. # 00: 12: 33-6 #

Q: Yes. # 00: 12: 34-6 #

B: The system doesn't know. So this interaction. And the third is click price optimization. Can you describe them a little bit more? # 00: 12: 40-6 #

Q: Yes, that is, click price optimization as a problem, no, that is. # 00: 12: 44-5 #

B: Yes. # 00: 12: 45-3 #

Q: Most bit management tools, i.e. tools that help me to optimize my click prices, for example with Adwords or Facebook that are now available, just look at the click price. That means, but there is, when you place ads on Ads or on Facebook, there is even more the click price. For example, there are advertising texts, there are landing pages. These are all elements that tend towards content, which also have a major influence on how successful my campaign is, but only the click price is optimized. Yes. So what do I know, the system recognizes, ah look, on Sunday afternoons when the weather is good, a lot of people shop in my shop, so I'll increase the click prices, yes, or rather I butter my CPA on Sunday afternoon. Yes, but that you can get very valuable leads or sales with good content on Monday mornings in bad weather, the system doesn't notice that because it only optimizes the CPA, only the click price. Yes, that is, at first glance it is of course a very smart optimization to look at what times of the day and so on you optimize click prices and CPA and so on. But there is more to it than that. And if you only concentrate on the CPC, i.e. on the click price, then a lot goes through your fingers and in my opinion it is really, if at all, half the battle. # 00: 14: 12-7 #

B: Exactly, that's a kind of technical optimization, no, but not a content-related one, no. # 00: 14: 16-8 #

Q: Yes. # 00: 14: 18-1 #

B: So if you work on the content now and say: how do we argue at all? Yes. All of these points. Then you are out of a technical advertising system, but deal much more with the products and the customers, the customer requests and everything, this whole cosmos, so, no. # 00: 14: 36-9 #

Q: And the biggest leverage is in content performance, yes. So # 00: 14: 40-3 #

B: That's why our podcast is called that. # 00: 14: 42-2 #

Q: yes. These are the experiences that we have now from 15 years that you can use the click price, really, because you cannot win a flower pot. That's nice on the last meter, but what we have achieved in some cases only through other advertising texts, only through a great landing page, yes. So that was in proportion a lot more than by somehow putting in ten cents more here or ten cents less there. Yes. # 00: 15: 11-0 #

B: Maybe again as an insert. We've already highlighted the topic of content performance in our own podcast, no, in a separate episode. So to whom again, yes, who actually wants to go deeper into that, we actually have this term again a little bit, it's really multi-layered. No, the two levels of content performance # 00: 15: 33-2 #

Q: Yes. # 00: 15: 34-0 #

B: we called that back then. # 00: 15: 35-1 #

Q: Exactly. # 00: 15: 36-1 #

B: It was like that in November, I think we broadcast it. That is a very complex term. So if you want to go deeper into it, you can definitely still hear something. # 00: 15: 45-0 #

Q: Exactly, so specifically it was about, strategically, what that means for someone, but also operationally, no. And we are now on the operational issue. How to get a much better CPA, perhaps to draw the bow in the direction of a solution, also with content performance. Yes, so we're not going to talk about click pricing and click pricing optimization today. It's clear, it's not exactly our topic. There is already enough for that. Rather, it's more about how to do it smartly via content and manual labor, no. # 00: 16: 13-6 #

B: Exactly, that's the keyword for the first, no. # 00: 16: 16-2 #

Q: Yes. # 00: 16: 16-9 #

B: So how do I deal with such an automated, that is, automation? You say yes, if that's comfortable, but roll up your sleeves and, yes, lend a hand yourself. # 00: 16: 29-7 #

Q: Yes, I am very critical in the area of ​​ads, I have to honestly admit. In the field of Facebook, there must be, it is simply a completely different advertising system. I personally think it often makes more sense to set or work with CPA goals because the system can optimize itself differently via the target groups. But in principle it is the case that I think that only if you lend a hand and adjust the things yourself and look at everything, you can make the experience and evaluate the campaigns for yourself in such a way that you can also do it in the area of ​​content and SEO To do this, you can also pull out learnings at all or also in the cooperation with, from, from marketing and content or from the, from technical marketing and content marketing, when it comes to extracting keywords and discovering valuable topics. You can only find out if you look inside and if you control the thing yourself, yes.And if it works too automatically, then you don't have these learnings and then, even when it comes to optimizing ads, for example, I always do that manually, yes. But that's the only way I get a feeling for which arguments work well, which I can then play back to you. I can only recommend this to everyone else, because ultimately the relevance and quality of an ad is always this triad, search term, keyword or target group for the ad and then the landing page. And that's almost all content, yes. But there it actually has relatively little to do with click prices. # 00: 18: 08-9 #

B: Yes, great. So I think so too. You can tell that, no, that, we really like to go deeper into it, even if we do that together with a customer. And that actually leads a bit to the second topic, namely this, yes, if the conversions are worth different amounts for the customer, yes. So he makes a high margin with one product, a low one with another or, no. You have now illustrated the shopping carts or the products that can be behind a lead. Yes, how do we go about it? # 00: 18: 48-2 #

Q: Yes, you have to determine the conversion value. And no matter how weird and drawn by the hair, it's better than nothing, no. Then many say: yes, from a lead, I don't know whether it will work, the conversion rate and so on is so difficult to calculate. But then our approach is that we say: it doesn't matter, do it anyway, yes. And still, good values ​​often come out of it. And if you do that for yourself, it is often the case in the sales department that it opens a few eyes again, so that when they work the numbers again, they see again: where are ours valuable customers? But it is really often the case that there is a media break that then goes from online to analog, into merchandise management and so on. And you have to try to intercept that somehow and find a basis for calculation on which you can then find out in marketing where the valuable leads or the valuable sales come from. # 00: 19: 45-0 #

B: Exactly, that would be, I also think that the sales department is also clear to them, for example, so now an example: we deliver leads to sales via online marketing and the sales department writes down exactly: how many leads we have I get? How much revenue did we generate with it? Yes, I think, no. That's just such a point. Or just that he, that we can also determine that perhaps no sensible leads, no usable leads can come from certain campaigns, come and then we can optimize again. # 00: 20: 15-2 #

Q: Yes, or you offer software, Software-as-a-Service, yes, there is often that, the free trial version. And then of course it is extremely important that you know afterwards about which, not who and how many sign up for the free trial version, but the value, which is actually much more exciting: How many people decide for the premium version after the free trial version? Yes, that's actually the deciding factor. And that often doesn't happen until a week later or three weeks or ten weeks later, but it still has to be reassigned to the campaign afterwards. Yes, that's often the problem. Not only is there a media break, but everything also has a time lag. And you have to try somehow to get that onto the chain and to solve it. There are also other tools that can do this. In the meantime, however, you can sometimes screw it together yourself with Google Analytics. Or with a web analysis dashboard. But you have to do that, otherwise it will ultimately be a blind flight. And especially when you have CPA optimized automatically, it is a much bigger blind flight because you actually spend the same for every lead. # 00: 21: 22-3 #

B: Yes, great. That is the second point, so to speak. The third point, that is, I would like to take it up again. That is what you said, that Adwords and content are often not considered together - also a big flaw in content marketing. Yes, that the same system does not develop any content proposals, so to speak, and that is really my world, yes. So you are always the one of us who is in the tools like that, yes, who is in the advertising systems and also works in them, while I always work with our customers on the content. Yes, so and in, how do we argue? Which target groups are we addressing at all? Which ones do we perhaps not address either? Yes. Can we also maybe? How can we qualify or pre-qualify via the content? And that is, is the third point, no, which still comes in there. # 00: 22: 22-4 #

Q: Yes, I think that's one of the most important points. Because every advertising system also has a relevance and a quality factor. Yes, on Google it is even called quality factor. And that's the content factor, the relevance factor. And if that's not right, then you can do what you want, then the advertising just doesn't work. # 00: 22: 43-3 #

B: So the one, the quality factor, as I understand it, is the customer, is looking for a certain term, is this term also found in the ad, is it or the world of terms is also found on the landing pages. How do the ad texts and the content on the website interact, right? That is how it is, to put it simply, these are the criteria, which then flow into such a quality factor. # 00: 23: 12-2 #

Q: And exactly. # 00: 23: 13-2 #

B: (unv.). # 00: 23: 14-2 #

Q: And the historical, so important is the historical click rate. So how often has the ad been clicked on in the past? Yes, because that is also a sign of it: is it interesting or is it not interesting? # 00: 23: 23-1 #

B: And that in turn, the quality factor, is determined, so to speak, is it also a factor that determines the price that one pays? # 00: 23: 32-8 #

Q: Yeah, well I mean, that's a very simple calculation, yeah. So if I am ready to spend one euro and I have a quality factor of ten, then in the very simple calculation I have ten, then I have ten rubber points, so to speak. But if I still have a quality factor of three, yes, and I spend two euros, i.e. double that, then I only have six rubber points. So yes. That means that whoever spends one euro only spends half, but is almost twice as strong in relevance and ranking as I did with my three points, no. So that's a huge lever, most of them don't see it. And there you can also see to what extent you can be about quality and influence your click prices, yes. It's always the direct factor in the formula and that's pretty important and it's also important for Google because they want to show relevant ads, yes. And that means, there, I don't think that much will change in the future, because the quality of the ad system means that relevant ads are shown. In other words, the more relevant and the better and the more clicks you are, the better and more powerful the CPA will be, the less I have to pay for my acquisition, for my conversion. And in my opinion, that's only possible with content. # 00: 24: 55-8 #

B: We'll do another episode via rubber dots for Google. # 00: 25: 01-3 #

Q: Exactly. But that is also, that is really the formula for Adwords with the quality factor, the ad rank, which, you can read everything about it, it is not that difficult. # 00: 25: 09-6 #

B: Yes, we already have. # 00: 25: 11-3 #

Q: Exactly. Ah, we have a lot / # 00: 25: 13-0 #

B: We touched on, but it's getting very complex now, yes. # 00: 25: 14-8 #

Q: Now we've talked a lot about Adwords. I think that's even more important on Facebook. There's the relevance factor for the ads. And that is actually another factor that, in my experience, is even more dependent on the performance. So how does the ad pull up? How much engagement? How many clicks, how many likes does this ad get? Yes. And you can only do that with cool pictures and good content. Yes, it can, no matter how good the target group is, if the ad is boring, nobody clicks on it. And if it has run through three times and still no one has clicked, then it falls down at the back and then this relevance factor becomes very small and then you have to spend a lot of money on Facebook in order to get visibility at all. On the other hand, if you have exciting ads and good content behind them, then Facebook is still a very cheap advertising system. But it depends, so it depends a lot more on the content than with Google Adwords, is my experience. If you want cheap CPAs. # 00: 26: 11-4 #

B: Absolutely. Although I also do the, with the ads on Facebook, yes, well I think that there is sometimes really, yes, very extremely pointed or, no, very, yes, just very pointed arguments. Of course, in order to generate that, you have to, I think personally, you have to keep it balanced so that it remains serious. # 00: 26: 34-8 #

Q: Yes, I think so too, yes. # 00: 26: 36-7 #

B: And at the same time it always remains strong, no. That's the way it is, think so, sometimes I sometimes have the feeling that some people slide into dubiousness, simply because better values ​​are then achieved again, backwards, no. And there you have to, I think, it really depends on the customer, yes. So that you don't. # 00: 26: 52-7 #

Q: And on the product. # 00: 26: 54-5 #

B: Yes, on the product that you don't destroy a brand afterwards, I'll say, but at least # 00: 27: 00-9 #

Q: Damaged. # 00: 27: 02-0 #

B: the damaged ones, just so you can get a nice low click price, like that. # 00: 27: 06-0 #

Q: No, we have already talked about them, you are absolutely right, we have already talked about the differences between the two advertising systems or the two platforms in general. You must never ignore that, yes, that Facebook is of course a push marketing and you push things into the market and you have to argue it completely differently at the point than when you ask someone for a solution and you really respond to it with a tailor-made ad on Adwords. Yes. So. # 00: 27: 32-3 #

B: Well, that's right. SEO traffic versus social traffic was the result, no. # 00: 27: 35-9 #

Q: Exactly. # 00: 27: 36-9 #

B: Did we talk about it, yes. # 00: 27: 37-9 #

Q: Sure, we're talking about Facebook and Google now as if they were two identical advertising systems, but they're not, yes. LinkedIn is also different in marketing. So the similarity that is there is that you can optimize via both systems, via the CPA. So about what you get out afterwards, you can say in the system: please optimize your advertising, i.e. my advertising in your system for amount X. So, and you can do that with both systems, but the approach is always different. # 00: 28: 02-9 #

B: Good. # 00: 28: 04-4 #

Q: Judi. # 00: 28: 05-6 #

B: Simon, do you draw a conclusion? # 00: 28: 07-0 #

Q: Sure. Point one is manual work. Do the work. That is really my recommendation. You also learn a lot more and have a much better argumentative basis if there are budgets like this, if you are deeply involved in your campaigns. And so I've often tried CPA again and that has sometimes worked well, if you do it granularly and still retain sovereignty, you can also do it as a bid strategy. And you should definitely try it out on Facebook. But wherever possible, I really recommend setting as much as possible yourself. For the content, for the big leverage content in the area of ​​CPA optimization, it is really important that you communicate internally. Yes, that you know where the important conversions are? What are the arguments with the target audience and so on. So all these internal stories that you have to address if you want to do a good CPA optimization. You have to talk to the guys internally. Because there is no point in sitting there in his ivory tower. And that ultimately leads to the fact that you really trust less in the technology, but more in yourself and in your company or for which you work, that you get the information and, yes, try to continue working and optimize manually if possible . # 00: 29: 27-6 #

B: Yes, great, well-rounded. That was the CPA optimization. Maybe at the end: as I said, if you are interested in our workshop, take a look at our website. We have already packed a lot in there. And otherwise just cross listening in a few old episodes. Of course, that is always a pleasure. Otherwise we'll hear from you next week. See you then, ciao. # 00: 29: 55-6 #

Q: Bye. # 00: 29: 56-6 #